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Ergasiophobic



Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 349

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xog wrote:
Quote:
"Imagine my surprise when I became 30, was still traveling, realized I hadn't died yet, hadn't succeeded yet, had no idea what I wanted to "do" (meaning what career to spend my life at), and had no goals. I figured I had been getting along pretty good the way I was, good enough for me anyway, and would just kept doing it, figuring I might die soon anyway and might as well enjoy myself and my experience while I had the chance. The world has changed for the worse since then, though not all for the worse, and the same universal laws govern the way things work no matter the shape of things. Trust your spirit. It will lead you where you need to go. If you kick the bucket in the course of it, you just don't have to deal with gravity or friction anymore."


That's what i've been trying to elude to at times here - to put into words, without much success; the feeling of impending doom, I guess you could call it, that you mentioned about yourself and your daughter. You think, "I could get hit by a bus any day now, what's the point of it all?" "What's the point of this (grossly) long-term planning that's needed in this society?" Then one day you wake up at 30 and, amazed that you're still here, wonder, "What the fuck am I gonna do now?"

It's like when my greatgrandmother at the age of 90, then 95, then 98, then 99 was so concerned with not using her credit card I thought, "Who cares, your right near the end, surely".

I was eventually informed at that time that when you die your heirs inherit all of your debt. Pfft, lmao... The rules in this world get stranger and stranger the more you learn.

So what do you think is the source of this feeling of impending doom? PTSD? Or just the human condition? What? Any clues?

And on a side-note: It's weird how thoughts just pour out of you without your control; I don't know who wrote that first reply of mine, but he seemed pretty smart. Smile
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Nat



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Ambiguity, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "mental health authorities" will tell you that the feeling of "impending doom" is a symptom of an anxiety disorder. And, for what it's worth, I think they are absolutely right. But what they won't add is that in our modern culture, anyone who has takes their conscience seriously is going to be at serious risk of acquiring such a disorder. I don't know if it's always been this way with human beings, but I do feel that the best measure of successful adaptation to our modern culture is a minimal or non-existent conscience and a willingness to ignore any thoughts we find psychologically inconvenient, regardless of their truth or importance. In fact, that is essentially what "mental health" is, at least from my crazy perspective.
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Ergasiophobic



Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 349

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAHA! and I was thinking of this idea the other day too. I found myself watching an old Star Trek episode while having dinner the other day when a girl (on the show) mentioned something about living in the 60's and the feeling of not going to live past their 30's... (that they all thought they'd die before they were 30) not really sure of the detail of her statement but I immediately thought about this thread then too.

So shut-up and go to work! is the gist. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Also, quit pulling that damn curtain back and showing everyone! They really hate that.

I already wrote more about this in the other thread though, so i'm out. Time to shut the curtain again.
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xog



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 413
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just re-read this whole thread. It is psychedelic; really good fodder for thought, more importantly, for not working, and it is mindexpanding. You can feel the stretch while reading it. I'm really glad I found this place and you all are here. Thank you for being you.

The terrorists are wasting their time. They could be enjoying 16 virgins before they go to the other side, prasing allah the whole time for just finding 16 virgins [who are legally approachable and willing.] <-- qualifying disclaimer in brackets. And one does not need to jump into microwave martyrdom for safety. :-) Civilization will bring itself down soon enough if it doesn't change priorities, whether one participates, refuses to participate, or stuggles against it. Why waste energy and get stressed out?

It seems to me, civilization should lock itself up for being so destructive to itself.
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Drift



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 109
Location: Britain

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ergasiophobic wrote:
perhaps we've created a complex of unecessities feeding upon unecessities exponentially multiplying into infinity.

Broken Spirit wrote:
Does anyone here, from what you know about me, have any ideas as far as "things I could do for a living" to work to bring civilization down that won't give me "enemy combatant" status?


Yes. Get a job. Wink

I'm being facetious, natch, but I recently read an article in New Scientist about the law of diminishing returns as it relates to civilisations. I've lost the magazine so I'll have to go by memory. The general gist was that the more complex a civilisation becomes, the nearer it gets to collapse. It works like this: A problem arises; someone comes up with a solution; the solution throws up further problems; someone finds a solution to these. This law of diminishing returns means that each level of problem solving requires additional effort. The more levels there are, the less efficient the system becomes. Because the traditional hierarchical structure can't deal quickly with the number of levels, control must be delegated to those who deal directly with the problems. Because there are so many people involved, those in different branches of the hierarchy must deal directly with each other, rather than going via the boss; so the hierarchy breaks down. Eventually the whole structure collapses suddenly.

The message (from the researchers quoted in the article) was that this collapse is inevitable. The only way of avoiding it is to change the system to allow a gradual wind-down to a simpler way of living.

So getting a job will speed up the destruction of civilisation. Because I'm not willing to do that, I should be praised as someone helping to slow down the slide into barbarism, not declaimed as a parasite.
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"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever."
-- From Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell.
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xog



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 413
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one thank you for your efforts to prolong civilization, Drift. Someone has to do it. The politicians sure aren't. I, too, hear and heed the call to keep the organized mess of Mankind going longer.

Maybe some politician could be motivated to enact a law that awards people like us medals and gives us a well tended memorial graveyard for when our individual times on earth run out, with row upon row upon row upon dizzying row of indentical white headstones, each ingraved with the saying "Job well not done. Civilization thanks you. Cheers." above each name, the alpha and omega dates of the individual's earthly tenure below that, a colorfully bright crisp uniform clad band strutting in step through the dizzying rows, as it plays the anthem "What? Me work? I did nothing of the sort!", tubas booming out reverberating oom pahs that reach to the far side of the universe and tickle the desire of the constelation Scorpio, drums rolling and tapping out complex beats in sync with nature, fifes trilling like birds on a sunny day in spring after a month of rain, trumpets blaring like...well, like trumpets blaring, bag pipes' shrill heart-rending evocation calling in the spirits of still blue painted Picts, majorettes strutting in front of them all, each dressed like Gwenevere on her way to a tryst with Sir Lancelot and trained to twirl batons so they don't get hung up in tantilizingly sheer flowing floor length, bell cuffed dresses, all led by an annually selected shapely imitation Lady Godiva, who is, of course, appropriately unclothed astride a proud and high stepping white steed, all headed to the feet of a raised and guilded throne upon which sits an incarnate representative of King Arthur, read New Ager with an alias, adorned with royal purple satin and a gold crown, a round table set up behind him with a hooka style keg in the middle, hoses extended to each seat to give the thirsty among the crowd as many sips of ale as they please with no last call, the common cheer being "Corpo Di Bacco!!!", another hooka in the middle next to the other one, with hoses from it extended next to the other hoses, deliviering another euphoric which shall remain unnamed to better suit the imagination of all, the cheer rising from those inbibers being "Don't bogart that toke, mate", the seats around the table always full, of course. Ah yes, and a Glastonbury Festival sized field surrounded by a 20 meter high drool retention wall with peep holes and coin slots for those who would rather just watch, the field completely covered in straw mattresses for the ensuing sweaty en masse roll in the hay revel, priests of every religious ilk seen shedding their various style heavily symboled cloaks and joining in with absolute abandon and fevered fervor. Surely one of Chruchill's descendents will organize it, and foot the bill from money gathered by The Queen's Country's Annual Mental Health Balling Ball Celebration Fund charity. Were that to happen, I personally think the Empire might rise again, Cromwell and Hornblower heard from the "other side" saying, "Nether nether has such a glorious ethent been seen on earth or in heathen. Amen and So mote it be. Halla Halla." Of course, I'm being imaginatively facetious. But I am serious about it being a good idea. :)
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Nat



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: Ambiguity, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So getting a job will speed up the destruction of civilisation. Because I'm not willing to do that, I should be praised as someone helping to slow down the slide into barbarism, not declaimed as a parasite.

Maybe so, but I would invest anything emotionally in this conclusion if I were you. There will be no praise for you, me, or any other dissenter, and this whole thing will keep moving forward toward whatever end is in store for it. The proposed solution, a voluntary "gradual wind-down," is out of the question, as I'm sure you realize. Despite the Sierra Club, Al Gore's Nobel Prize, and everything else, there's no intention of slowing down or backing off until absolutely forced to do so.

Ironically, a guaranteed minimum income, that most hated of ideas, is just about the only thing I can envision significantly improving the world situation. People aren't going to produce and consume less unless you PAY them to do so - and in a sense, that is precisely what a GMI does. Encouraging a sizeable chunk of the frenzied workforce to stay home permanently would have a drastic effect on production and consumption - an effect I don't see happening any other way.

But there's no evidence a GMI is ever going to happen in the Western world.
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Ergasiophobic



Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. And just the other day I came across this guy talking about the same ideas. He mentions "The Tragedy of the Commons" and basically says the same as we are saying here - the greed will not stop.

Quote:
"The Tragedy of the Commons is a type of social trap, often economic, that involves a conflict over finite resources between individual interests and the common good. It states that free access and unrestricted demand for a finite resource ultimately structurally dooms the resource through over-exploitation."

"A TOTC is brought about by selfish individuals whose genes for selfish behaviour would therefore come to predominate, so the metaphor cannot explain how altruism arises. This question is addressed instead by models of possible mechanisms that can give rise to "reciprocal altruism", leading to ideas like the "tit for tat" rule (reciprocation). These models freed evolutionary theory from the limitations imposed by the concept of "inclusive fitness", a previous explanation for altruism, which proposed that organisms help others only to the extent that by doing so they increase the probability of passing shared genes to the next generation.

The TOTC idea has been applied to other areas of sociobiology and behavioral ecology, such as in the evolution of virulence or sexual conflict, where males may fatally harm females when competing for matings.[21] It is also raised as a question in studies of social insects, where scientists wish to understand why insect workers do not undermine the "common good" by laying eggs of their own and causing a breakdown of the society.

The idea of evolutionary suicide, where adaptation at the level of the individual causes the whole species or population to be driven extinct, can be seen as an extreme form of an evolutionary tragedy of the commons."
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Broken Spirit



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1117
Location: xhentric.wordpress.com; whybother.freeboards.org

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nat wrote:
I am lazy, I love welfare, and I don't want a job.

Wow, I just made enemies of 99% of my fellow Americans. Ouch....


We are living in the idiot nation where athletes are worshiped and kids go into the military to escape poverty, take steroids, and what - have a career.

support the troops? Will we be asked to support the troops as they carry us into work camps?

Don't support the troops. support me. support those of us who resist. why won't you support us, amerika? I am on public record stating my contempt for the wealth warped values of 'Amerika'.

So, don't mind me, amerika. don't mind me, society. I won't harm you. you see, i am powerless to do so. I am a disenfranchised serf.

Thank you for clearing this up Nat. I feel so much more relaxed now about imagining myself despised.

the whole anti-intellectual atmosphere, the worship of athletes and professional sports and - the icon, the automobile ... am I a stranger in a strange land?

I am an outsider in this society. I live on the eggs of chickens and have no stock invested in these 'american dream' lifestyles.

I stand alone as a nation of one. I beg to disagree. In fact, I would go as far to say that I am one of the more intelligent human beings here, and that I am finding it difficult to find a place in my society, not because i am crazy or lazy, but because i am an honest man.

[edited to remove profanities - it is easier on the eyes]


Last edited by Broken Spirit on Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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xog



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 413
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erga, a couple of posts back: I think the sense of empending doom is from subliminals in the media, to keep everyone off balance. Could be way off on that. Doubt it. It's my least paranoid thought about it. Another is that the energy flows are getting like one before a world wide desaster in ancient times and our bodies' memories are recognizing it. Where I'm living doesn't help me with that: active volcano going off in two spots now, history of tsunamis, thousands of miles of ocean all around, less and less flights to and from here, natives who have a good reason to be irate.
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